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Fat Squirrel
Fat Squirrel
Singapore
Learner
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Fat Squirrel
Should simplify more. Will do more practice without ctrl z
Fat Squirrel
Hi there. I would like to know if I am on the right track. The first two images are my attempts before watching the demos and critiques, and the third image is after, marking my second attempt at this project. Both attempts are done digitally. I'd also like to ask for the serious artist, whether I should attempt these projects in pencil and what the pros of doing so are. It feels more convenient digitally, but traditional media forces me to slow down and I can't ctrl + z there :P I would like to know if in my second attempt 1. I have selected the appropriate values for my face study on the third photo, if I have enough values to give enough information about the face and if there was a better way to choose my values so that I convey more / better information. 2. Whether I have successfully designed my shapes to convey the form of the subject I am studying / drawing. (I tried to show it on the fruits on my second attempt, tried to think of them as 3D forms. I could've designed and placed my shadow shapes on the vase better to show roundedness) (I tried to have transitional tones from shadow to half tone then highlight.) 3. Whether there is rhythm to my shapes (the face study is really messy with lots of jagged shapes). Not sure how important this is. I understand it is needed, but practically I think I failed to apply this in my face. Do I need to simplify the shapes more and make it more abstract so that I can finesse more rhythm there, or do I need to learn some sort of Reilly rhythms to the face and go about it from there? I do know a little about the planes of the face, vaguely, not enough or intimately enough to draw from imagination, but it has informed some of my decisions to put a part of my portrait study in darker halftone (the right temple and cheek). I also tried to unify the shapes as much as possible, but for the portrait study, I couldn't unify all the shadows and lights into one contiguous shape. Some of them break off, like the bottom left cheek-mouth area where there's a highlight. In that case, to aesthetically communicate this breaking of light / shadow shapes, do I need to use design principles like big medium small? Proko said to have either light or dark dominate the subject so that it doesn't create symmetry. I tried to do that on the face, but there was only about 15% of the face in shadow (left side of the face). I now realize I haven't been squinting at all for my second attempt. Do the shapes and values of those shape reflect what is shown in the reference image well enough? I think they do for the most part, but there are quite a few inconsistencies, so in an academic drawing this won't hold up as passable. My pears and portrait study in the first attempt aren't that good, since most of the values I just splattered on there without much thought and simply referenced from the image. I've trying to design my shapes more consciously and line them up in a way that conveys more form. I was also trying to improve in the selection of of my values. I see that the pears I did in attempt 1 didn't have the best value selection and the portrait values didn't have the most accurate depiction of the half tones. Have I improved in regards to these two points? Finally, I am somewhat proud of my second attempt. It's above what I could originally do. But as I am now, I am unable to see how to better improve on this, beyond doing more practice. Could anyone recommend any role model examples / people who're really good in what's being taught in this assignment? i.e simplification, communicating forms through shape design, rhythms, etc. I've found inspiration from some of the students here after seeing how great their homework assignments were, so I actively tried to emulate them while working on my second attempt. I feel like I can't improve as well or practice as deliberately without having a model example to aim at. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you! Ps, the images appear quite small, so you might have to open original image to zoom in
Fat Squirrel
Here are the notes I took down from the demos and critique after doing my first attempt. Not sure if I captured all of them, but this is what I managed: Proko Basic Notes: 1st Project : Simplifcation of values (Pear and Face) Design of Clear separation of shadow vs light 1. The brightest shadow should not be brighter than the darkest light i.e Dark halftone should not be darker than the shadow value.  2. Domination of either light or dark, create asymmetry.  3. For this exercise, I should choose to bring small details, especially the lip area in the model reference all into shadow to make the statement that it is in the shadow group, instead of adding the light groups into the parts of the lips that have bounce light in them. This is because we only have allocated 2 shadow values for our shadows, so we must choose to remove these smaller details. Value Control 1. Even gradation and stepping of values. That or have distinct groups of dark vs light.  2. If you wish to show more detail in the shadow side, allocate 3 values for that and 2 for light. 3. Since you are not rendering a metallic object, try not to have highlights next to shadows. Gradate it with a step of halftone. There is stepping gradation from dark to light. Have transitional halftones from shadow to highlight. 4. If your gradation steps for your light values are too close to each other, the image will not pop as much since it is harder to see the contrast and the steps. It is not as obvious that there is a plane change Shape design & Appeal 1. There should be unification of shadow group values, separated from a unified light group. There should be distinct rhythm of these groups of values. Do not overcomplicate, simplify to keep said rhythm distinct. You see rhythm mostly because you are drawing a 3D object, not an abstract 2D thing. There should not be random floating shapes. They must be tied and unified with the bigger picture. 2. Shape of the silhouette should be simplified more. Be bolder in simplifying shapes instead of sticking too much to accuracy.  3. The shape design and contours of the internal shapes as well as silhouette should be utilized to sell the form of the object. Consider the objects as a 3D form and use the orientation, tilt, angle, no. of sides of the shape to indicate **plane changes** 4. Create asymmetry by deliberately offsetting symmetrical shapes. Measurement and Observation: 1. Use plumb lines, use horizontal lines, use angles in relation to other already drawn features. I have done that for the silhouette, need to do more for the negative spaces and internal shadow shapes. Shading Process: 1. The reason you should use the tip of the pencil to shade is because it gives you a more even shading without too much texture. Using the flat of the graphite will not allow the pencil to go into the valleys of the bumps of the page. 2. Start out with shadows first (second darkest value) then proceed with either half tones or dark accents. 3. You don't want to (when using pencils) shade 100% of the desired value straight away. Ease into it, or you might risk overdoing it and leave unsightly gaps and inconsistencies. 4. When coming up with the value range (for pencils) , shade the dark accents on top of the shadow value, and darker halftone on top of the brighter half tone. Translating this into digital medium, place in shadow values first then on a separate and more front layer add in the dark accents. Always start with the lighter value first then add in the darker values (?). 5. Be deliberate in choosing whether to remove or exaggerate small details. Trying to replicate small details in shadow or light shapes is not simplifying and will overcomplicate the drawing. Make the artistic choice to either remove those small details or to exaggerate it so that you are clearly making the point to convey something with that detail.  6. Design the shapes as you are putting down the half tones (need to experiment with this) 7. The more contrast and more gradation there is, that's where the focal point is. 8. Squint more!! Quotes: People like to show the reflected lights in the shadows, which aren't that light, only seems so in comparison. But that isn't the focal point. Bargh said that the volume is in the lights, and the atmosphere is the in shadows. Airy, more texture, softer edges, less information. But in the lights, there will be planes and description of forms Shadows are areas of rest, areas of air, lights are focal points that describe volume.
Brandon
Asked for help
Um this is not my first time to draw figure gesture. I ve been drawing spaghetti for 6 months, after the seal exercise in the basic course and mike and proko 's lecture. I think I have drawn spaghetti with better shape language. But sometime something seems missing . Could some one please help me with this? Normally I draw from naked ppl, but copyright is my concern if i posted here .
Fat Squirrel
Hi there. here are a few pointers that I could shoot, hopefully they help. 1. Shape design & Appeal. Proko explains it well in his video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID8r0OhiYe0 1. You want to avoid asymmetry like the plague in every shape that you draw. It makes it stiff. So no snowmen. 2. You want to offset the apex of a curve against the other side's apex / pinch so that there is a flow going through the entire form. For example: 1st row first figure from the left, a tapered shape is used to describe the left leg (our left). It can be made more gestural by making it more asymmetrical via adding curves on one side vs straights on the other. Third figure from the left first row left leg also has a similar area of improvement. Bottom right figure's torso can use more asymmetry. First row 2nd figure from the right has good asymmetry in the overall figure. Symmetry is broken up by the butt, the torso has a pinch and stretch, and the legs have rhythm to them because you've drawn the curve of the quads flowing into the hook of the calves (look at the respective apexes of the curves -- they flow into each other) 2. Exaggerating the gesture You want to exaggerate the pinching and stretching as much as possible so get a good read. You want to make sure that there is flow going through the entire figure and that the lines of your figure indicate so clearly. The force series explains this very well : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtaBjtAGsk0 I recommend reading the books and the Youtube tutorials by Mike. 3. Wedging Try to wedge your forms together, so that you see the line overlap the line from another body part. The result is having internal lines within the contour of the figure that indicates form, instead of just a 2d contour silhouette. James describes wedging well in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FupeKX4NQsQ First figure top left can use improvements in the arms. Wedge it more into the torso. 4. Drawing through the forms and the figure Don't be afraid of drawing your gesture lines through the figure. It's okay to have your lines overshoot where it's supposed to end if that means you maintain the gesture, flow, rhythm, and power of your line. Mike Mattesi does this a lot in his gesture drawings. Stopping your lines and not following through will cause rhythm and flow to stop abruptly, which causes interruptions in the flow of the eye, making things look stiff. 5. Become aware of landmarks and exaggerate their position and tilt to better describe gesture. It's best described here: https://youtu.be/-TqKd2XB844?si=_AJaLAvix8VeXSM6 For gesture drawings, it is good to look at good examples of people who draw good gestures. I recommend Josh Black https://youtu.be/eiNbRRIyX1g?si=8UzLT8Y50PzBokc2
Lenserd martell
i am watch the demo and try again:> It's fun
Fat Squirrel
Your pears are excellently designed!
@judkauwe
Feedback is appreciated, from my own pov i feel like i didn't divide the planes well and at the time i realized it some lines were too marked to correct, also managing different values with a single pencil was a bit difficult for me, i probably shouldv'e used a variety of hardness but i digress.
Heidi Lorenz
Hello Judkauwe. I see you are off to a good start & i think your own POV is good & shows your increased awareness of what is happening between values in this lovely granny smith! I thought I'd point out my observations so that you could think about them too! I agree the divided planes do not replicate the planes of the actual apple pictured but they are. not too far off & so you have succeeded in recognizing that for yourself so awesome job! And, you figured out you might do better to vary your pencils to help you distinguish between values better!! Also awesome job in identifying that! And, good news is you can try again with your improved awareness! That's super cool!! Something I noticed was the shadow values are not supportive of your apples value that aligns with the shadow value. The contrast between your apple and your shadow is small and in the photo the contrast is much bigger and that contrast really helps in making your apple pop so I might want to check that! And, maybe you did and that. is the area you were speaking of that you pressed too hard with your pencil and couldn't correct that! a kneaded eraser might help though by just pressing it on the shadow area! I also see you posted this 23 days ago so probably you've already improved your attempts. Thanks for allowing us an opportunity to critic your work!
Paolo
Hi all, this is my first attempt on structure, looking for a critique on what I can improve on.
Fat Squirrel
Hello! Considering this is your first attempt on structure, you're doing fine. It will help if you used a fineliner / pen / darker pencil so that we can see your artwork better! :) Anyways, here's some tips you could try out. I'll come back with a better explanation with pictures later when I start doing the structure lesson in this course. I happened to have some experience with structure in another course. Firstly, it helps to draw through things, as if you have X-ray vision. I.e Drawing the other sides / faces / lines of a box instead of just drawing the faces that are visible Especially when starting out on structure, we aren't too concerned with likeness or whether it looks good. The most important thing is that it looks convincingly 3D, constructed from basic forms like the box, cube, cylinder, etc., perhaps from organic forms if you're comfortable. As such, you don't just want to draw the silhouette, you want to draw through the entire form, x-ray vision and everything. It help you understand how exactly a form sits on another form, or how it intersects. Also, it will help greatly to construct things with boxes or forms that have defined planes and faces (i.e a box). A box has clear indications of where it is facing and it's orientation, and constructing things and animals using the box will force us to think about orientation. It's something like what you have done with the heads of the giraffes. Perhaps you might want to try doing it with the body. This will provide you with a meaningful challenge that improves your spatial reasoning skills. Another thing, you can also try building up a complex form, such as a giraffe, instead of trying to capture it all in one shot. For example, you can start with a long rectangular box for the torso, then add on some lumps on its back, then the legs, etc. etc. This will give you a basic framework to work off of and help you find your bearings as to where each protrusion and dent is, and what kind of additional form has to be slapped on to match what is seen in the reference. Deconstructing animals into basic forms and structuralising them is harder than it looks, so don't feel discouraged after a few wonky results. Also, there are a few things that are quite important before we can see our attempts in structure being fruitful. 1. Knowing how to draw the basic box / cube. This is a test of perspective, whether we know how to direct the lines into which vanishing point where, and by how much due to foreshortening. Once you are able to draw a box with it's lines accurately converging to appropriate vanishing points, the next level is to be able to be able to rotate them in any orientation you wish. The box is a basic tool in construction. You'll be using this a lot. 2. Being able to wrap contour lines around a rounded form well enough to communicate a convicing form that looks 3D, like you can reach into the paper and grab it. Here's Marshal Vandruff's video on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFKMw8YekFY&ab_channel=Proko Try drawing a few sausages and then wrapping them with contour lines. The reason why this will be useful is that when you draw organic, blobby shapes for structure, you'll need to sell the form of that shape, instead of it simply being a 2D blob. Irshad Karim, an instructor on Proko, has a course called Drawabox, or you can simply visit his Youtube channel (Uncomfortable) to see how you explains the concepts and the assignments he gives. At least for myself, he has information on the more basics of the basics, perhaps all of which are needed to be intuitively understood (having practised enough) before I could imagine attempting the exercises here appropriately. He also has a supportive discord community that gives critical feedback, something you can benefit from. (I hope this isn't going against Proko's TOS, since the course is free, and supplements the courses here.) It'll teach you all the basics of the basics and really challenge and level up your spatial reasoning skills for construction. I'm revisiting Proko and the figure drawing course after gaining quite a few skills from Irshad Karim's stuff, having practised enough to be able to tackle this course more effectively. Construction is actually quite the advanced topic, especially for novices like myself. It requires a bunch of other fundamental skills like perspective, before we can pull of structuralising animals well. I had to practice drawing boxes for 2 weeks, 250 of them, before I could get the hang of how to converge lines accurate to vanishing points to get an accurate looking box. Lastly, it is always great to look at the homework of other students and model examples to see how they solve spatial problems, and try to replicate that in your own practice. I hope this helps! (pardon any typos, can't be bothered to spellcheck or grammar) edit: This is my amateur opinion on the matter, so it might help getting differing opinions. I'm not an art teacher, just another person trying to learn art. I might be wrong about certain things, though I hope I'm not. :) -Fat Squirrel
Fat Squirrel
Hi! Here's my first 16 Loomis Heads. The last 8 is kinda messy, since I was trying to figure out the orientation because of the crazy angles and foreshortening. I'd be grateful if any errors or mistakes are pointed out. I've spotted quite a few on my own, i.e convergence inaccuracies, etc. My lines are kinda messy too, since I didn't use any tools like rulers or smoothing. It's all freehand, aside from this being digital and all. Here's a few observations I've made, and I may or may not be mistaken. 1. The minor axis of the ellipse denoting the side planes must be pointed into the vanishing point 2. When measuring out the size of the ellipse, we have to measure it in the direction of the vanishing point (i.e not always vertical depending on the orientation of the head) 3. When the head is drawn viewed from the back, we can find where the front is and their measurements, which is obstructed by the skull and we can't see it, by wrapping the measurement lines (the thirds of the face) around the cranium like rubber bands from the back. Also, I have a question on foreshortening. Do you just have to estimate the amount by which the measurements compress/extend when measuring along a foreshortened axis? Or is there some sort of technically accurate method for that? I've been relying on intuition thus far. I hope my heads look good enough. Lastly, how many of these do we have to draw? I know Stan said 100 heads, but is there a point of diminishing returns? I don't want to grind for the sake of grinding. edit: for some of the more extreme angles, the 3D model wouldn't give me the view I needed, so I couldn't quite check whether I am accurate with my Loomis head. Thanks!
Tekahem
3yr
Wow! Impressive :-)
Gannon Beck
Great studies!
@fooze
Hey proko people! So I am a beginner artist, just started with the proko portrait drawing course in February of this year and I can't seem to finish it. I'm done with the Loomis method but I keep getting stuck in the feature section. I just can't wrap my head around it (and also because I keep procrastinating) and I'm getting so impatient. I just really wanna learn how to draw the body already. So my question is, Should I finish the portrait course first? or can I multi-task and do both figure drawing and portrait courses at the same time?
Fat Squirrel
Here's my amateur opinion on this: Sure, go ahead. I don't believe there are any major penalities in doing two courses at once, and since it really depends on what you wish to learn anyways, why not take the chance and dare to try 2 courses at a time? If you're a worrywart like I am, then here's what I like to tell myself: the wise man was once a fool; if we don't risk being foolish, we can never be wise. In other words, failure and inefficiencies are inevitabilities in the art journey, whether in producing art or learning art. It is in our failures that we are taught how to do things right. We just have to observe closely without excessive worry or rumination and dare to make mistakes, and dare to 'waste time'. It's all part of the process. Obviously, when taking on multiple courses at once, you will sacrifice the focus and speed at which you learn the items in one course; you're digging multiple 2 ft holes rather than digging a single 20 ft hole. Now, due to my lack of experience, I can't tell you whether learning broadly or learning deeply and specifically is better for the beginner. All I know is that fundamentals will let you go a long way, more specifically, the technical aspect of linemaking (i.e drawing from the shoulder, not from the wrist or the elbow, having mastered the smooth, straight line and be able to accurately connect one point to another point on the canvas, having a good grasp over ellipses and smooth curves, as well as knowing how to draw boxes from 3pt perspective in any and every orientation possible. If you're an absolute beginner or not too comfortable with the basics yet, then I highly suggest taking the course 'Drawabox' by Irshad Karim, one of the instructors here on Proko. It teaches you the fundamentals of the fundamentals, about line making and spatial reasoning. That specific course isn't here on this website, but you can find the website with a quick google search. Join the discord channel too, it's a great community where critics are offered routinely.) Learning the fundamentals will equip you with the tools necessary to begin learning most of the courses here on Proko, because by then you would be able to physically execute the lines necessary to a certain level of proficiency and quality to gain benefit from the course. In other words, the fundamentals will enable you to 'wrap your head around the features part of the portrait drawing course'. Perhaps you require more spatial reasoning, perspective, and line making skills before you can fully grasp and attempt what is taught in that part of the course. Just a guess, though I've confronted this problem myself too. Anyways, back to your question. To procrastinate on learning new art skillsets is a common problem. It might be because of the fear that we aren't qualified yet to even attempt the course, it might be because we don't want to learn what's in the course, it might be other factors in life (i.e video game addiction or other distractors that inhibits focus). Though for the beginner, I'm guessing he doesn't see art as the stringent discipline that a committed learner needs to adhere to to see marked improvements. What the beginner is concerned with is what he wants to learn, not need to learn. Perhaps dabbling in art to build up the interest is needed to develop the moxie of a committed learner, otherwise the beginner would prematurely burnout and lose interest in art because he forced himself too hard too fast. Sinix Design (on Youtube) mentioned this as building up passion for art, a currency that you then use to go through the arduous practices that are sure to come. In other words, if you don't want to learn features, you may stop there and move on to learning something else that is more up your alley. As a beginner, there's no need to force yourself to learn something you don't want to if the only thing it's causing you is frustration and pain, or more importantly, if you don't have the proficiencies to properly attempt the part of the course. Personally, I've diligently attempted the Drawabox course up to 3/4 the way through, then decided that the lesson materials after that point is not something I want to learn yet, so I've come back to the Potrait Drawing Course because I want to learn how to draw faces. Perhaps once I go through the figure drawing course, I will return to finish Drawabox. Of course, I practise my 3 point perspective boxes, and line making skills every day as warm up, drawing straight lines and making circles and ellipses to polish and maintain muscle memory. At least, I hope my efforts aren't in vain. Unless you've upgraded yourself from a beginner to a committed learner, there's no need to stick through with a course 100% in one sitting. Even then, it is entirely up to you to decide how you are going to learn and what you are going to learn first (I'd suggest learning the fundamentals of the fundamentals first, that's always a prerequisite to anything). I hope this lengthy explanation helps out and isn't too confusing. -Fat Squirrel
Goku
This is my first time drawing this head from the front view and I feel like my proportions are off in several areas, looking for critiques
Fat Squirrel
Hello! It's a late reply, but I'd like to point out how the cranial mass (width of the head) shouldn't be a full circle when viewed from the front. If you notice in the video, at around 1:10, Stan chops off a bit of the circle, then applies the ellipse on either side of the cranium, making the head not as round as a full circle. Also, if you refer to the 3D model of the loomis head provided in this course, it doesn't quite match up to the information given in this video. Stan shows the head from above (at 0:38) showing how the head tapers towards the front. The head is less wide in front than it is at the back. However, the 3D model shows the side planes as perfectly flat, so it isn't quite accurate. I got confused when I tried tracing over people's faces in the front view using the Loomis method, until I reviewed this video again. Hope this helps.
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