Hi @Sarvesh Gupta, sorry for the late reply! I'm not sure what other method you're refering too. It's been so long since I watched the critique video. Could you tell me the time stamp for where in the video it is? (e.g. 07:25). I looked at your more recent posts too, so this is an overall pelvis critique: The drawings look good, you seem to be in control of construction and you're trying multiple angles. You haven't done many bottom views, so I would recommend doing some more of those. I found the rear bottom view to be really tricky, but It's good to practice since it's important for drawing the hamstrings well. You mentioned that you struggled with the spine. For me getting the spine right got easier once I got comfortable with drawing the sacrum, to which the spine anchors. The placement and proportion of the sacrum looks a little off in your drawings. One thing that really helped me was to be aware of the articulate surface on the illium of both sides, between which the sacrum fits. Hope this helps :) Keep up the good work!

Pelvis critique: I think you would appreciate reading this comment https://www.proko.com/s/BGQW Headline: CYLINDERS

Hey, Matthew. I should've been a little more specific in my advice. When I told you to select the better drawings I was thinking in work mode where everyone is busy and running to meet their deadlines. So at the time it didn't occur to me that that maybe there are people that learn better if they share their whole process and also a friend pointed to me that if you're starting right now it may be stressful to select your drawings. Because in a way you're evaluating your own work, and if you're learning something new, you don't understand the criteria for a successful drawing yet and you're new to self evaluation, I'm just introducing one more step to the process that's already complicated. So let me rephrase my advice in a more broad manner and just in the context of receiving feedback. Show your work in the way you're most comfortable with, but in the same time be aware that will impact the way you're critiqued. With less drawings you get higher odds of people going through each drawing. More drawings and people will focus their analysis in your process because in a realistic scenario it's impossible going one by one. In any case number your drawings regardless of how many you do. It's easier on the person giving feedback because he can say "number 1 has this problem, number 3 needs to be more that way, good job on number 23...", and it's easier for you because you can easily locate the exercise being critiqued in a faster way. Also being critiqued in anatomy is a little harder than being critique in figure drawing or portrait drawing. Since it's a advanced course, there are fewer people doing the course and consequently there are fewer people critiquing. So I'm afraid that there'll be times that regardless of the presentation your assignments will go without feedback. So be patient if you don't receive any answer right way, try going through the next sections, and in the future come back and redo repost older sections. OK, with that out of the way, this is going to be a looooooong critique, because this is a very complicated subject. So, If you are frustrated with this section I would like you to know that this is a very conceptually difficult part of the course and outside of anatomy it's useless. This construction is based on cylinders in perspective, which is hard. Not only that is tapering flattened cylinders which is harder. On top of that you still gonna draw the pelvis which has the sacrum that is constructed either with curves in perspective or boxes with multiple vanishing points which is even harder...and if that isn't enough you still have to do this from your imagination. WHICH IS SO FUC...well you get the idea. I gotta be honest. When I'm figure drawing I don't use this bucket. Ever. It's so complicated, it fits weirdly in the body and it's not practical at all. But for anatomy it's useful because you understand better where the muscles of the legs, butt, back and abs attach. So give yourself credit for trying, if you understand it, good, you conquered one of the most difficult bones in the body and if you don't as long as you know how to draw a box and the landmarks you'll be fine. Let me break you assignment in a few parts so I hopefully can give you good directions in these: THE BUCKET In general I feel that you've done an excellent job. All of these buckets feel solid, show good structure and perspective. There are 3 main issues that I'm seeing that could be the reason while you're finding the construction strange. One is the tapering of the cylinders. In a lot of these exercises you're just tapering your lines as if it was a normal cylinder. These lines gonna converge faster than normal, specially when you're looking down on it. Second is where you're measuring the middle. Basic rule of perspective is things get smaller as they get farther. So if a length is in perspective the half that's closer to us is gonna be bigger than the half away. Therefore the it's center would be a little further back (not too much than what you're doing, don't go overboard). check the size of the length of the bucket when they go in perspective. Again the length diminish very fast Finally is the angle of the ellipses. This is the suckiest part of this assignment. With a normal cylinder (an extruded circle), the major axxis of the ellipse will be perpendicular the the long axxis. Which is difficult, but manageable. In this goddamned structure that's not the case. The major axxis is gonna be between where the the perpendicular axxis would be and the horizontal line of the top cap (check the beginning of the critique video, Stan explains better). But this new axxis is not constant, depending on the angle it's going to be closer to the horizontal line or the perpendicular axxis (infuriating, isn't it?) So here's what you do. Use the 3-d model. Find the long axxis, Find the perpendicular axxis, Find the horizontal axxis. Estimate the degree (how fatter the ellipse is) and where is the ellipse axxis (it's between those two). The ellipse at the bottom will point to the same direction but will be a little fatter. Where you cut the wedge also form an ellipse...that point to a different direction that the other two (because why not?). But word of advice, Just try to get the curve of the wedge. There're ways to estimate its axxis with a second 3-d model or following the cut in the bucket, but there's already to much to do. So recapitulating, if your bucket doesn't look right, Check the tapering, check the height of the bucket, check where you put the middle line and where you cut the wedge and check the angle of ellipses. CONSTRUCTION OF THE PELVIS Again, very nice work. There's two areas that I would suggest you to pay more attention. One is the two holes in the bottom. IN you drawings they are very random sized. try making they more constant. The accetabulum same thing. The second thing is the saccrum. First thing, you drawing too close to the border of the bucket. Check the 3-d model with the pelvis in the bucket wire frame. If you look it from the top it doesn't reach the wall of the bucket. There's a distance between the border and the end of it. Also the way you're connecting to the wings of the pelvis, Remember that it has volume, so where you can draw an edge or a more boxy form. Finally you're constantly twisting the sacrum. If you simplify the form into 3 boxes, While its vertical lines will have different orientations the horizontal lines will point to the same vanishing point. So make sure they align. It's a similar processo to draw bending fingers. Also notice that these 3 boxes don't have the same size and avoid drawing rounded tops for now. As I already said. that's too much too juggle in this construction. Where you can simplify use straights instead of curves. PRACTICING THE PELVIS. Finally. Tips for practicing. Whenever you're using the 3-d model. Have a second one open by its side. One you'll keep fixed, the other you'll rotate whenever you're in doubt. You can have a third one that's just the bucket ion the same position. This helps you investigate the form, where curves are going and will better inform your decisions when you simplify. Practice the male and the female in the same position. It helps you observing and practicing the difference between the genders in a more intuitive way. Also practicing opposite views helps you fixing it better this forms. Walk away when you're stressed or frustrated. our eyes become blind in these situations. We tend to do the same lines, same mistakes over and over again, but we are convinced that we are trying some different that is failing every time. Just take some time away from the drawing. Some times just an hour away, a cup of coffee can renew your eyes and you catch your mistakes easily. Finally don't expect to get this right away, keep practicing and when you're done with this section, keep practing a little every once in a while. This is very easy to forget because you don't use this bucket in anything else. I did that. I had to relearn this section 3,4 times when there was a muscle that attached to the pelvis. When you think you get the gist of it, practice 2, 3 pelvis every couple of days to keep the memory alive. Eventually it settles in your mind. So, this was everything that I know about pelvis. And I hope this helps you to have a way less frustating journey learning this that I had. But patience. It's hard. Be compassionate to yourself. Keep drawing. Best regards

Hi Adam! I'm somewhat new at all this, so take my understanding for what you want. What made ellipses on an angle or in perspective as cylinders click for me is described by the attached image. In the first diagram on the left, you can see that if you draw straight lines with perpendicular intersecting lines (in orange, just like if you were going to construct a box) in 1-point perspective and then draw ellipses at each of the intersecting lines, you will get elliptical edges on the forms in the correct perspective. Note the center line running through the center of the cylindrical form. Where that guideline connects on each end of the cylinder describes the exact middle of the ellipse for either end. This is what I think of as ellipses "on an angle", and I believe this is how to correctly construct things like car tires in perspective. The second image shows a practice I do often - simply drawing ellipses on a plane in perspective. Notice there are horizontal and vertical cross lines on the box. They guide the arc of ellipse. You can look up tutorials anywhere to see a step-by-step of that exercise. I found it useful to get ellipses into my muscle memory. Hope that helps!

I think Stan's terminology could use some work. The way he describes the "long axis", "this axis", etc. could be confusing. What he dubs "the long axis" is the NORMAL of the ellipse. Imagine a pencil, placed upright on the eraser end, on the surface of your desk. The pencil then represents the NORMAL of your desk's plane. The "angle of the ellipse" is its MAJOR AXIS. Google it, and you'll know that the longest dimension of an ellipse is called its MAJOR AXIS. Now, from Stan's demonstrations, there's a possibility that you might get confused between the ellipse that is the actual cap of the bucket (let's called this EA), and the ellipse that is its REPRESENTATION IN PERSPECTIVE (let's called this EB). EB is only an approximation of EA at a particular angle of view, it is never truly accurate. Stan noted that he simplifies by making the NORMAL of EA PERPENDICULAR to the MAJOR AXIS of EB. The NORMAL of EA represents the forward tilt of the bucket, while the MAJOR AXIS of EB tells you how long you should draw EB and how you should orient EB. It is an okay simplification because the point of the lesson isn't to get too deep in the weeds of perspective, but since it's only a simplification, you may find it doesn't work well when you're tracing screenshots of the 3D bucket model. Just keep that in mind, it's only a simplification, and hardly a accurate one. Here's a simple illustration. The NORMAL is in red, and the MAJOR AXIS is in blue. In the most frontal view, the NORMAL is just a vertical line. As you orbit around the bucket, its tilt is increasingly apparent. The MAJOR AXIS is always perpendicular to the NORMAL, and it helps you orient the caps of the bucket and know their length.

Your answer lies in intuitively understanding perspective and more specifically how to put an ellipse into a quadrilateral that is in perspective (and then even more specifically so extending the aforementioned ellipse into a cylinder). If you are having frustration with the simplified pelvis I have strong feeling you don't have a knowledgeable grasp on perspective yet. Go to Marshall Vandruff's website. He has a perspective course for 12 dollars. About two thirds of the way into the second lecture on ellipses he should answer your particular question. I know I say to spend money to answer this answer, but his series on perspective will be pretty much every bit of information you will ever need on perspective. He explains this answer and perspective questions way better than anyone will be able to in this forum. I cannot recommend it enough.